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07/25/2010

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Pradeep K

That’s right. If the 0.3 billion Americans pass laws to close themselves up inside their borders and then legislate economic inefficiency, then that will surely prevent the remaining 5.7 billion of this planet from figuring out how to tap our cheaper labor, and then surely our growth will stall, and then surely America will retain its superior standard of living compared to the rest of the world. Sure no problem with that concept!

Unfortunately for you Americans, in Joshua Norman’s words you see exactly the vicious cycle of Western decline. How the stalling liberalization of Western economies produces economic stagnation which then causes their public to ironically vote for even more growth stifling central planning measures at the next election. The vicious cycle at work. You are going down for sure.

We the BRIC country citizens will not catch up to the West in individual prosperity unless we approach your current levels of economic liberalization. But the key point is that, even under our current, still modest, ecomomic liberalization levels we may finally be free enough to get to just 1/3 of the Western living standard. That, by virtue of our numbers, will be enough for us to eclipse the entire West (US and Europe combined).

You Westerners either move on to the next level of liberalization and resume growth at 4+% or you’re done as the dominant power and envy of the world. It’s just as simple as that.

The BRIC train is behind but moving at 8+%. While your Western train with the luxurious dining and sleeping cars is moving at an anemic 1-2% AND your main preoccupation is quarrelling with the diver and engineer because they have salaries 10 times bigger than yours. Good luck folks!

Jobs for you

While there are valid aguements for both points of view I think that 2 years of unemployment compensation period is way too much. It will be abused by so many and give too much room for some to get into a rot.

Adam

I know that in Australia, those unemployed are paid sizeable pensions. For example, those who surf and do drugs all day, actually can afford to feed themselves and their family as well as having a roof over their heads... all for not doing a bit of work a day.

Thanks for the article, I found it quite informative.

Adam.

NEH

Aussie, So the Unemployed, at least Down-under, are not only "lazy, shiftless, and disreputable characters" they now are also drug addicts?

Jake

Once upon a time, way back when Jimmy Carter was the president of the United States (an era many Obama voters do not remember), the economy was in horrible shape. Between jobs at the time, I visited the local unemployment office out of curiosity. It was the last time I ever did so. The lines were so long that it was much easier to go out, look for, and find work. That is what I did. And, no, it was not a web designer job or anything remotely like that.

It amounted to getting my hands dirty. By and large, the commenters above would seem not to recognize the experience. To them, getting their hands dirty means wiping pizza crumbs off their keyboards.

Bah.

janice

I would like to add that many people abuse unemployment extension system in New York. My ex is collecting his extension from NYC while residing abroad!!! He thought his benefits ran out after he collected 79weeks in July but they gave him 20 more weeks in New York. He did not even ask for it. He does not look for a job at all, he is out of the country claiming every week from his lap top computer and is having a great life. Plus he was only employed PART TIME for 16 months but lied when certified for benefits and got approved.
Nobody cares in NY and nobody is checking anything so many people simply take a great advantage of the system.

Eddie Allen

unemployment is an activity - search - and a distasteful activity at best. There is something going on with this recession and recovery that is very different from any that has gone before, and that is the incredible spike in long term unemployed.

I wish you would turn your great powers of analysis to studying the reasons why this economy fails to supply jobs for the willing takers. (the job openning statistics are still poor).

PS - a bright spot is that businesses are starting to invest, even in the face of high excess capacity. So please no more drivel about how the uncertainty is retarding investment.

Rider I

I think that the American public needs some motivation. I believe the benefits should be extended. However, only if those receiving a pay check where willing to work 20 hours a week basic labor to help rebuild our economy like the New Deal and the other 20 hours either create a job or find a job. This I believe would cause both sides to be happy. As the Dems would get their help and the Pubs would get the benefit of knowing that these people really cannot get jobs because no one wants to do remedial labor. Along with that America would get the motivation of a people who had a good hard work ethic like the generation that came out of the New Deal. This would in theory force folks to create jobs or create more productivity for jobs so they did not have to go to their unemployment work.

I also believe we will have this problem until the insurance industry picks up and the force goes through. This is because if we look at the last two service industry crashes you will see a bell curve shape of employment and loss of employment leading to each crash. I believe this will happen again after the insurance service industry bell curve. As the US is a heavily based service industry country. We could find a root production industry like Green Technology to sell to the international market. However, as we have a huge trade and technological deficit with the biggest abuser of Cartel activities since the Soviet Union. I believe we will end up in a depression after the next service cycle bell curve. Unless we properly look into the Chinese Communist Economic Cartel Activities that created the unfair international market place.

I have a cite and I am working on my Communist Economic Cartel theory and its part in the world crash. It is rough right now, but will be properly written by August 15, 2010

http://rideriantieconomicwarfare.blogspot.com/

This website is not professionally done and is my mere hobby as I believe America does not have anyone watching the Chinese Cartel Activities and the WTO's commission on Cartels is inactive.

Rider I

Joe Sandor

Professor Becker - rather cavalier attitude to the value of the $800 billion stimuls. See Zandi and Blinder. Seems from what I've read that most economists agree the stimulus has helped both GDP and jobs - the question is only how much.

Joshua Norman

Jake said:
" Once upon a time, way back when Jimmy Carter was the president of the United States (an era many Obama voters do not remember), the economy was in horrible shape. Between jobs at the time, I visited the local unemployment office out of curiosity. It was the last time I ever did so. The lines were so long that it was much easier to go out, look for, and find work. That is what I did. And, no, it was not a web designer job or anything remotely like that.

It amounted to getting my hands dirty. By and large, the commenters above would seem not to recognize the experience. To them, getting their hands dirty means wiping pizza crumbs off their keyboards.

Bah."

Yes its easy to say to a person with education & professional work experience go work cleaning toilets or picking fruit or some other dirty physical labor job that offers low pay and little benefits. However just because an overeducated and overqualified candidate applies for such work, that means nothing, since the employer has plenty of applicants to choose from. Plus even if they didn't, the first question out of the recruiter or hiring manager is "What makes you want this job?" Followed by "If the economy got better, would you stay with us?"

A person can't apply to an unlimited number of jobs in a day. The most good quality applications a person could execute in a single day would probably be about 14 well-prepared applications. I think it would be more prudent for a person to apply for jobs more in line with his background rather than applied to jobs in which he is overqualified and the employer's electronic recruiting system algorithms will end up rejecting him for being overqualified.

Joshua Norman

Pradeep K says:
"That’s right. If the 0.3 billion Americans pass laws to close themselves up inside their borders and then legislate economic inefficiency, then that will surely prevent the remaining 5.7 billion of this planet from figuring out how to tap our cheaper labor, and then surely our growth will stall, and then surely America will retain its superior standard of living compared to the rest of the world. Sure no problem with that concept!
Unfortunately for you Americans, in Joshua Norman’s words you see exactly the vicious cycle of Western decline. How the stalling liberalization of Western economies produces economic stagnation which then causes their public to ironically vote for even more growth stifling central planning measures at the next election. The vicious cycle at work. You are going down for sure.
We the BRIC country citizens will not catch up to the West in individual prosperity unless we approach your current levels of economic liberalization. But the key point is that, even under our current, still modest, ecomomic liberalization levels we may finally be free enough to get to just 1/3 of the Western living standard. That, by virtue of our numbers, will be enough for us to eclipse the entire West (US and Europe combined).
You Westerners either move on to the next level of liberalization and resume growth at 4+% or you’re done as the dominant power and envy of the world. It’s just as simple as that.
The BRIC train is behind but moving at 8+%. While your Western train with the luxurious dining and sleeping cars is moving at an anemic 1-2% AND your main preoccupation is quarrelling with the diver and engineer because they have salaries 10 times bigger than yours. Good luck folks!"

Are you saying that deporting all illegal aliens and reducing immigration to people with education and skills that reflect 21st century jobs as opposed admitting more maids and landscapers is closing the border? Are you saying that implementing antidumping duties against subsidized exports is closing the border? I will concede that America's big government does dumb things. For example we tax the American business operations of America companies but let them defer tax on their foreign operations. We have high income, corporate and sales taxes on American workers, businesses and tax free imports. I propose implementing tariffs and cutting taxes on American workers and businesses to reverse this self-inflicted disadvantage.

I wonder if Pradeep saw Joshua Norman's words lamenting the growth of statism in this country on the other thread of this blog relating to unemployment. America is sprinted down the road to being a national socialist statist country. Importing 1.1 million newcomers from backward socialist statist countries will only accelerate it. I have a tempered optimism that the Republicans will have learned their lesson from the last time they had power, win the 2010 & 2012 elections. Hopefully RINO moderates like Orrin Hatch, Lindsey Graham, Mitch McConnell and the crones from Maine will have less influence in the party.

You say the west needs to resume liberalization. I'll agree with you there. India can afford to have high tax rates because they have a pool of cheap exploitable labor. America has rules and regulations that were drafted to prevent America from becoming another India. I'll concede Bush had a good plan in cutting taxes. However it was executed with the neolithic incompetency you'd expect from the Bush Administration as they let the Democrats and RINOs increase government spending. Plus the tax rate cuts were temporary as opposed to permanent, which muted the economic impact. America especially needs to reduce taxes, government spending and bad regulations because America could never compete on price with India. See this link for what the media, academia, the government and business overlook when talking about India.
http://escapefromindia.wordpress.com/

As for your last paragraph about "While your Western train with the luxurious dining and sleeping cars is moving at an anemic 1-2% AND your main preoccupation is quarrelling with the diver and engineer because they have salaries 10 times bigger than yours" our concern is that the driver and engineer want to cut our pay in order to fund pay increases for them.

Rider I

Rider I
I guess the proper calculations that need to be done are this. Each individual needs to have a set schedule of how much they have paid into the EDD. Then once they have used that up they have to go on a contractual EDD work to pay motivational strategy. This should be done so that 1. It is fair that they have received their pay. 2. So that once they have to work for their EDD, they will feel motivated to actually either to take any other job or actually create a job. 3. They will realize that the reliance on the service bell curve of boom bust will not be what they are supposed to do. As I would love to create an actual graph showing how the correlation between service crash .com and service crash mortgage industry has a huge impact on unemployment. Therefore, once the major earning jobs are gone so is a vast ripple effect of other jobs that were receiving support from the big earners.

This primarily links into our government’s inability to properly regulate the Communist Economic Cartel’s that is being used by China. Which have gone unchecked for 30 years and have a high correlation between the service industries, trade deficit, public debt and the unemployment rate?

This has been regulated for Russia for some reason however; it has not been for China.

Therefore, Sir's, Yes's, Unemployment should be extended but once one has run out of their paid in, they should have to work for it. As this will place a burden on the government to actually stop the SOE Cartel Activities because our citizens will not be so contentious with remedial labor, like the New Deal’s ripple effect. There are proven imperial research to show that SOE Cartel Activities are a huge factor in consumer imbalance.

My Light is at:
http://rideriantieconomicwarfare.blogspot.com/

I have a theory of how the World Economy Crashed and it looks right into the Activities of the Communist Cartel's. I am not scared and I will make a stand, and I now I am right. I believe currently Mr. Greenspan's calculations of comparative advantage actually miscalculated the possible Abuse of the Cartel Activities. Which, has caused huge unemployment rates in those countries being affected by them?

Why do we eat ouerselves up when for over 100 years we have none the dangers of Communist Cartel Activities? At least read it Sir's. The logic makes sense.

Jake

Joshua Norman's view is tantamount to saying that living on the government dole is a higher form of existence than doing real work for pay in the private sector, however dirty and inconvenient that work might be.


On the back of such reasoning did many vote for Obama.

Joshua Norman

jake said:
Joshua Norman's view is tantamount to saying that living on the government dole is a higher form of existence than doing real work for pay in the private sector, however dirty and inconvenient that work might be.

On the back of such reasoning did many vote for Obama."
Jake, you read what you wanted to read. Maybe I need to write it again. There are a glut of candidates applying to all job openings in this country. Gross Job Openings have declined by nearly 40% from the end of 2000 to May 2010, as measured by the JOLTS report by the BLS. The number of people quiting their job has also declined by nearly 40% and The number of unemployed people has increased by 150% from the beginning of 2000 to June 2010. A topless coffee shop in Maine received 150 applications for open wait staff positions. Wal-Mart receives 3000-4000 applications on average for each of their stores, with a record 25,000 for their Evergreen Park store in Illinois.

My wish for every single one of these yahoos who believe that the unemployed are “lazy”, “waiting”, “choose to be unemployed”, or have “unpleasant personalities” and/or “don’t know how to do a day’s work” could stand in the shoes of the unemployed.

Let’s see how they react to spending every day poring over the want ads, networking with everybody they have ever known in their lives, even trying to sell employers on the idea of creating a position that matches their skills and how it would benefit the employer.

Let’s see how they feel about sending out 20 resumes (all with carefully worded cover letters tailored to a specific prospective employer) every day and never getting any callbacks or any reaction at all. And when they call to follow up anywhere, they are told that they received 500 applications for a single position and the person the firm ended up hiring someone who occupied a position that was two or three rungs on the career ladder than the one you and him applied to.

I offered to all those against unemployment benefits, I OFFERED to pay back all unemployment benefits received if the following took place, regardless of whether I could find work or not.
1. The U.S. deports all the illegal immigrants in the country back to their home countries.
2. The U.S. enforces the immigration laws already on the books and removes the anchor baby loophole.
3. The U.S. reduces the number of legal immigrants permitted to enter the country as well as implements formal policies that focus immigration efforts on immigrants with the desired education, skills & capital.
4. The U.S. implements tariffs on imports, particularly on imports from the Third World.
5. The U.S. dedicated the revenue raised by tariffs to cut taxes for individuals, businesses and U.S. corporate entities.

Jake

Aw, shucks, Joshua, why don't you just come right out and admit that you've never had dirt under your fingernails from earning an honest living?

Olsen

Turns out, the hosts were probably ill advised to take up cause against the unemployed. Because, as it turns out, the unemployed have one thing in great abundance: Time to kill blogging!

Joshua Norman

Jake Said:
"Aw, shucks, Joshua, why don't you just come right out and admit that you've never had dirt under your fingernails from earning an honest living?"

Actually I have. Don't make an assumption like that because you make an ass out of u and an ass out of sumption. Needless to say I went to college in order to get education so I wouldn't be doing it for the rest of my life.

I've proposed a solution to reduce unemployment & public assistance spending on social programs by deporting illegals, enforcing the immigration laws, reducing new immigration entries, tariffing subsidized imports and cutting business taxes. Rather than make personal attacks at me, why don't you debate me on the ideas.

I advocate these ideas because if they were implemented, the dirty jobs wouldn't be so dirty. Instead of businesses relying on a pool of exploitable labor, they would have to offer a living wage, decent benefits and a progressive career path for their workers. Before the 1980s meat packing plants offered decent working class jobs to US citizens, now we've returned to the days of The Jungle. In the old days, unions represented workers interests, now they're just a cog in the leftist statist coalition, which explains why you have crooks like Andy Stern giving up the right to strike in order to organize workers.


Olsen said:
"Turns out, the hosts were probably ill advised to take up cause against the unemployed. Because, as it turns out, the unemployed have one thing in great abundance: Time to kill blogging!"
It actually worries me that so many of our educated youth are either unemployed or underemployed through no fault of their own. The late Rabbi Meir Kahane of the Jewish Defense League noticed a similar economic situation in the US in the 1970s and wrote about it in his book "Our Challenge". The potential repeat of what happened in 1930s Europe was avoided because of the tax rate reductions from 1981-86, which lead to the American stock & bond markets growing rapidly from 1982 to March 2000, which helped the economy grow rapidly and create new professional jobs, which helped offset the decline in manual labor jobs. Now that America is offshoring the office jobs and importing H1-Bs to take the remaining office jobs, their is a rapid growth in unemployment and stagnation in the economy and capital markets.

NEH

Jake, Have you ever worked in the "sand pit" of Cast House in a Steel Mill in the middle of 100 deg. F summer days? When working there, you wish all you got was "dirt under your finger nails". In the interests of other's sensitivities, I won't mention where the oiled cast sand can migrate to. Have you ever put in twelve hour shifts in a deep shaft coal mine and at the end of the shift come out looking like a "tar baby"?

So don't extol the "virtues" of getting "dirt under ones finger nails" to me or any one else. That's the problem, most do not understand, what it really means to get "dirt under ones finger nails". But, they extol it as some sort of proletarian virtue that's only worth minimum pay and let's not even discuss the issues of "Health, Safety and Welfare". or Unemployment Comp. or Insurance when the Economy craters due to the greed and avarice of a few enconced in the Financial Sector (who by the way got their bailout and are once again or continuing to pull down multi-million dollar bonuses at the taxpayers, workers and shareholders expense).

Looks like we've returned to the old days of "Workers of the WORLD Unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains!"

Joshua Norman

@NEH:

Funny you mention coal miners. Now the bosses are trying to bring in immigrant workers to work in the mines. I'm not surprised that it would be taking place in Kentucky, a Christian Conservative anti-labor Republican stronghold. People there show more outrage over gay marriage and abortion than for the economic war being waged on workers.
http://blog.vdare.com/archives/2006/02/19/american-miners-now-targeted/
http://www.vdare.com/fulford/usa_today.htm

NEH

Hey, It's the Bluegrass State. The land of Mint Juleps and Race Horse Farms. Who cares about the people in the Hills and Mines. They've always been poor, always will be. It must be a life style choice (I get outta here before before these @#$%& get me killed). As for the immigrants, great, they know little of Safe Mining Engineering, M.S.H.A. and O.S.H.A. regulations and requirements. Creates better margins. ;)

Jake

Joshua Norman and NEH confuse pizza crumbs on their keyboards (their apparent reality) with dirt under the fingernails (what they've read about in books).

Joshua Norman

Jake says:
"Joshua Norman and NEH confuse pizza crumbs on their keyboards (their apparent reality) with dirt under the fingernails (what they've read about in books)."
Jake, don't make assumptions. When you make assumptions, you make an ass out of you and an ass out of sumptions.

Are you the same guy who wrote on the other thread discussing this subject about America paying its dues. If so I'm disappointed that you have a hostile attitude towards those either working or seeking employment.

Other than that post, you've contributed nothing to this discussion except personal insults. Either you were unwilling or unable to read my response about educated people working at physical labor jobs. The number of job openings in this country is minimal relative to the number of unemployed. And there are plenty of employed people applying for lateral moves and downwards moves. Firms routinely get 100s of applications for a single opening. Most people can only apply to 10-15 jobs a day.

I offered a plan to reduce unemployment and unemployment spending. Debate me on my proposals, don't resort to name calling. My 1 year cousin in Hartford has more maturity than you.

NEH

Jake, Really?! Ever been in the old J.L. works in Pittsburgh? How about the old Inland Mills now Arcelor/Mittal works on the south shore of Lake Michigan. How about the Rosebud Mines, Murray Energy Mines or better yet the old Hatfield Mines? Pizza crumbs? Can't stand the stuff. It's only dough, tomato sauce and casein. I have a greater concern for my health. ;)

Joshua Norman

Yeah Jake really, as for pizza crumb, I haven't had a pizza since March. The best place to go for pizza in Boston is Santarpios in East Boston. Since it involves having to drive through Boston traffic and its cash only, I don't go that often.

Joshua Norman

@NEH

I liked your comments about Kentucky. While they have some nice places, a simpler lifestyle, lower cost housing, because it is so obsessed with the Christian conservative dogma, there aren't many jobs there, which makes it a bad overall place to live. They also have a lot of German-American folks there who are antilabor and antisemitic fanatics. The Tri-county area of Campbell, Kenton and Boone counties are supposed to be the classy part of the state due to their proximity to Cincinnati. If that area is supposed to be the classy area of the state, it doesn't say much about the state.

A old classmate of mine had a discussion about immigrants. He said we should allow all the immigrants to come because they are willing to work long hours at lousy jobs for little pay. I said that's the reason why we need to limit the number of immigrants to America.

It's sad that the only work Jake can suggest is 21st century equivalents to Dickensian workhouses. I didn't even oppose working physical labor. It's easier to talk about making a downward shift than to actually execute it.
The following jobs I interviewed for and was told that I was overqualified:
1. Broker's Assitant, Wachovia Securities
2. Corporate Staff Accountant, The Newark Group
3. Portfolio Administrator, Welch & Forbes LLC
If I can be told that I was overqualified here, then I know that the HR & hiring managers at the physical labor jobs would say it too.

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