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07/25/2010

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interesting publication

Jake

Aw, shucks, NEH, ever been down in the old iron mines in the Mesabi Range? Or the old Lukens Steel mill in Coatesville, PA? Or running a vertical boring mill, turning out 48-inch pipeline valve bodies, on the graveyard shift? Or spend any time on a rooftop, pouring hot tar in mid-summer?

And Joshua Norman's talk about sending out 10-15 job applications a day may persuade Mom and Dad not to kick him out of their cellar, but lends his arguments no credibility.

Joshua Norman

Jake says:
"Aw, shucks, NEH, ever been down in the old iron mines in the Mesabi Range? Or the old Lukens Steel mill in Coatesville, PA? Or running a vertical boring mill, turning out 48-inch pipeline valve bodies, on the graveyard shift? Or spend any time on a rooftop, pouring hot tar in mid-summer?

And Joshua Norman's talk about sending out 10-15 job applications a day may persuade Mom and Dad not to kick him out of their cellar, but lends his arguments no credibility."
Actually I have my own apartment far away from them. In fact, until I lost my job I was providing support to them. It's pretty obvious that you Jake is nothing more than a troll on this board. Since you are either unwilling or unable to read my ideas on how to reduce unemployment in this country, perhaps you should find someone who will. Instead of making personal insults against me coupled with your silent assertion with regards to solving the problem of unemployment and lack of trade competitiveness, offer something of substance.

NEH

Joshua, My five great grandfather is buried someplace in Kentucky just south of Cincy. He and his son owned a farm down there in the late 1790's. And the family moved up just north of Cincy. in about 1803. Yeah, some of those old square head German immigrants can be a bit on the Conservative side, yet there are quite a few who can be quite Liberal. Those are the escapees from the Prussian State Secret Police after the Revolution of 1848-49. I'm related to these guys too. As for myself, I reside in the Chicago area and Houston-Austin areas. Trying to expand my job search area and luck in landing a new job. "Overqualified", "Underqualified", "Not qualified" I've heard it all and not heard thing. This is the worst job market I've ever seen or experienced.

As the saying goes, "All my problems would go away if I could get a full time paying job with benefits". Do those even exist anymore?

NEH

Jake, Never been up in the Mesabi range. Did see the old ore boats coming into Cleveland and Chicago to unload the taconite briquets though. Lukens? Never was at the Plant, although I have been involved in the design, fabrication and installation of ASME Pressure Vessels utilizing their heads in oil, gas and petrochemical plants. 48" Line valves? Purchased and installed them too. Not too mention, all other types and sizes of valves, pipe and associated equipment.

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Jake

Way to go, NEH. If you know the oilpatch, you are by definition a good man.

And Joshua -- my most distant American ancestor came here from Holland in 1660. (His farmhouse in NJ still stands and remains inhabited.) My fellow ancestor and namesake was a lieutenant in General Washington's army. And my great-great-great-great grandfather had the misfortune to lose his scalp to a Native American over a land dispute. Past generations would be amazed at what many of us find uncomfortable or inconvenient or unfair or unjust these days. Personally, I count my blessings.

Joshua Norman

Jake:

If you're such a fan of people in the oil business I worked for an oil distribution company in 2004 before accepting a position with PNC's investment administration division.

As for Dutch relatives, my paternal grandmother's family came from Holland at the turn of the century. A distant relative in that side of my family married Samuel Gompers the labor leader. And a great-aunt on my mother's side and her family survived Auschwitz.

As for past generations being amazed at what we find uncomfortable, inconvient, unfair or unjust, it was because they refused to accept the status quo and fight for what we enjoy today. I bless the fact that they fought for the 8 hour day, jobless benefits, overtime pay, collective bargaining, better pay for workers, against child labor, against sweatshops, against unlimited immigration streaming across our borders and against subsidized import dumping by our "trading partners". Plus the labor movement saved capitalism from itself. Only in America are labor unions nearly as capitalist as management.

What bothers me about you is you're not getting it. America may be stronger now than the turn of the 20th century, or during early days of independence, or during the colonial days. However, with the way America is headed, that will not be the case. And the worst thing is this country threw away its advantages in order to be like the nations of the world. That is why I offered my proposals, which you have yet to weigh in on.

As for work related endeavors, I entered into negotiations to form an independent research partnership with a gentleman in NYC. Ironically he works as a project manager for an Indian offshoring bodyshop. The Odd Couple's Odd Couple eh? Well there goes the neighborhood. Anyway we are looking to make money by identifying wasteful government spending as well as publicizing our research efforts and getting Congress and the President to do the right thing. If you'd like to contribute money to our efforts please don't hesitate to do so. We're targeting small contributions, $30, $50, $100 etc.

Jake

Gosh almighty, Joshua, I'm so glad to hear you "worked for an oil distribution company in 2004." Working with oily stuff would seem to explain your slippery rhetoric.

What is truly pathetic is your idea that "America may be stronger now than the turn of the 20th century, or during early days of independence, or during the colonial days," if only the proletariat would listen to your "proposals," which amount to a plea for "small contributions, $30, $50, $100 etc." [sic].

At best, sir, you are a damned fraud. At worst, you dream of running a Stalinist gulag.

Quit screwing around and get a job. Hint: you can stand on the street corner where the Hispanic gentlemen congregate each morning and find work.


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Joshua Norman

Jake, stop twisting the words around.

I mentioned my time with the oil distribution company because you seemed to respect NEH for working in the oil industry.

I'm not looking to run a Stalinist Gulag. I would like to see this country return to the values of the founding fathers. Right now, America is sprinting down the road to leftist-socialist anarcho-tyranny. I knew that electing Obama would be a mistake. My mother’s family hailed from Hartford, CT. Hartford elected Thurman Milner, a member of the ObamaNation as mayor in 1981, followed by Carrie Saxon Perry in 1987 and Eduardo Perez, a former leader of the Ghetto Brothers gang. Needless to say it no longer holds its position as the insurance capital of the world, as well as Connecticut's leading city.

America may be the world's leading superpower now, but unless we stop giving everything away to the Chinese, Latinos, Mohammedans, Indians and Japanese, America will be right back to where they were in 1607.

I asked for money for four reasons:
1. I was concerned that the initiative would take longer than anticipated, cutting into my time for my MBA program as well as computer programming training.
2. With the capital market volatility, I didn't want to take on new debt.
3. I was performing a service that many people talk about but are unable to take it to a next level.
4. Other individuals and organizations offer their research and analysis for sale. Why would you react with such visceral hatred for me offering to do the same? People give money to political candidates so they can try to change the system, why not nonaligned researchers.

As for getting a job, you think its that easy to just up and get a job? The number of job openings in the last 10 years has declined by about 40%, thanks to offshoring of jobs. Also when I-Bankers are applying for junior research associate jobs, your advice is naive and Pollyanish at best.
As for the Hispanic day laborers on the corner, I proposed deporting those illegal aliens so as to reduce the supply of labor which would increase purchasing power for those who take their place. I just got off the phone with a major asset management boutique. They liked my resume, but they thought I may have been too overqualified for the position I applied to. I wanted to tell them that, but I held my tongue and told that I applied for the position to get additional project management experience.

If you don't want to debate me on my ideas, I would say you are against them. Unless you respond differently I will say you are in favor of the following:
1. Jake is in favor of 12 million illegal aliens to come to this country, undercut native laborer wages, and cost the taxpayers hundreds of billions of dollars in aid payments to these people.
2. Jake believes our immigration laws should not be enforced because it brings millions of brown helots and coolies to work in America.
3. Jake supports giving millions of foreigners green cards and visas to come into this country to put further pressure on American wages and working conditions.
4. Jake supports our country incurring large trade deficits with our mercantilist "trading partners", as well as the offshoring of American jobs to Third World countries. Jake is enthusiastic that they tariff our exports to their countries while demanding no tariffs on their exports to this country.
5. Jake accepts the current taxation regime in America where a person pays more taxes on domestic goods than imports.
6. Jake has no problem with the government living beyond its means and getting in hock to countries who hate us like China & Japan.

Joshua Norman

http://investigates.i2i.org/2010/08/05/documents-reveal-potential-widespread-fraud-at-department-of-labor/
Jake was ranting and raving at me yet I heard nary a peep from him about this?

Jake

Idiot.


Consider that a peep.

CM

Do you think it might be worth making the distinction between there being "no serious evidence that the $800 billion stimulus package passed over a year ago has had much stimulating effect on unemployment or GDP" and there being no evidence which you find convincing. There seem to be many reputable and serious economists who disagree strongly with what you are saying, based on evidence they find compelling. What does it mean to be serious in an academic context? I would say part of it is taking competing points of view seriously.

And since serious evidence is what is required to make statements about economic policy, what serious evidence is there that "even the long term unemployed can find jobs if they are willing to take a cut in their earnings, and/or move to other industries and occupations"? You refer to the JOLTS data but how does this show that the long term unemployed found jobs by changing their willingness to work in a given industry or for a given wage? Or that they can? And in what sense are the long term unemployed unwilling to take a cut in their earnings? Or unwilling to move to a different industry or occupation? They have no earnings, industry or occupation. This statement is absurd prima facie.

Joshua Norman

Jake sneers
"Idiot. Consider that a peep."

When I pointed out that illegal aliens were collected unemployment benefits that they were not entitled too. He showed more outrage at me for posting the story rather than the illegal aliens who were collecting unemployment. I was going to ask myself why, but since Jake loves illegal aliens because they undercut native laborer wages, and cost the taxpayers hundreds of billions of dollars in aid payments to these people, I already know the answer.

Joshua Norman

CM says "Do you think it might be worth making the distinction between there being "no serious evidence that the $800 billion stimulus package passed over a year ago has had much stimulating effect on unemployment or GDP" and there being no evidence which you find convincing. There seem to be many reputable and serious economists who disagree strongly with what you are saying, based on evidence they find compelling. What does it mean to be serious in an academic context? I would say part of it is taking competing points of view seriously."

I think the stimulus could have been handled better. I think the government should have cut income tax rates permanently, as well as cut wastefully spending programs, starting with foreign aid, closing agencies that have no constitutional purpose and reductions in entitlement spending.

"And since serious evidence is what is required to make statements about economic policy, what serious evidence is there that "even the long term unemployed can find jobs if they are willing to take a cut in their earnings, and/or move to other industries and occupations"? You refer to the JOLTS data but how does this show that the long term unemployed found jobs by changing their willingness to work in a given industry or for a given wage? Or that they can? And in what sense are the long term unemployed unwilling to take a cut in their earnings? Or unwilling to move to a different industry or occupation? They have no earnings, industry or occupation. This statement is absurd prima facie."
It is easy to talk workers being willing to change industries & jobs and move to other parts of the country. However because employers have so many candidates to choose from, they can hire someone local who is willing to make a lateral or downward move rather than the flexible outsider candidate.

CM

Josh I appreciate what you are saying, especially about closing wasteful spending on purposeless agencies. There are particularly compelling examples of this in the area of homeland security. Foreign aid is also something that could perhaps be better handled, whether it is pursued for reasons of morality/ethics or due to foreign policy considerations. As far as cutting income tax, I have to disagree that that is an efficient or intelligent way to stimulate the economy under other circumstances.

Joshua Norman

OK CM, unlike Jake you've shown some civility with regards to your points. With regards to cutting spending in the areas of homeland defense do you have specific programs you'd propose either cutting the program or reducing the spending?

For your aid I have enclosed a link showing all the Federal Homeland security spending programs that will be enacted in Obama's 2011 Federal Budget.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2011/assets/dhs.pdf

I believe that in a strong national defense and homeland security, however with over $1 trillion of spending on the following agencies I'm sure that there are areas one can cut:
1. Department of Defense
2. Department of Homeland Security
3. Department of Veterans Affairs
4. Army Corps of Engineers

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Phil H

"Extend or not to Extend" that really is the question. Insurance is too complicated. Look at no-fault vs indemnity. However, if there was consistency across state lines to pay benefits up to 104 weeks only, there would be no question. The government could take that $30 Billion and hire those who have been unemployed for two years at minimum wage and put a half million people to work for two years. That would be a real stimulus package.

Joshua Norman

Phil Says: ""Extend or not to Extend" that really is the question. Insurance is too complicated. Look at no-fault vs indemnity. However, if there was consistency across state lines to pay benefits up to 104 weeks only, there would be no question. The government could take that $30 Billion and hire those who have been unemployed for two years at minimum wage and put a half million people to work for two years. That would be a real stimulus package."
If the government was to deport all the illegal aliens, enforce current immigration law, get rid of the anchor baby loophole and limit legal immigration quotas to those with skills & education, then they could reduce unemployment, which would result in less spending on unemployment benefits.

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Roscoe

These are extraordinary times that require new ways of thinking. Let's face it, many jobs/industries are gone or have left (the country). Many people need help in "re-creating" their work lives. Unemployment needs to be structured so as to support this.

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