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10/03/2010

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blake

Yay! Letting kids take 1/2 of the money the school is given for their education as a voucher if they go to a different school would be my call. But school reform is so needed now imo. Glad to hear you guys are on it.

Jake

It's amazing. To identify effective educational reforms, all one need do is target the proposals the teachers' unions oppose.

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Great Information. That sounds pretty cool. Really helpful thanks for the Article, Great job, Keep posting interesting matters here. Looking forward to it. Thanks and keep it up! All the Best.

Bill Ivey

Odd. All the research I know suggests that external rewards and punishments undercut internal motivation, at least for higher-order thinking tasks. They are, on the other hand, effective for lower-level thinking tasks such as rote memorization. I would argue we want to promote higher-level thinking in our schools.

In addition, my understanding is that research also shows that value-added measurements are not up to the task of discerning highly effective from ineffective teachers - that teachers' scores (or more precisely the scores of teachers' students) can vary wildly from year to year, and even after averaging together results for a decade there is only 92% reliability.

I certainly agree we should not be teaching to the test, and find other areas of agreement with your article as well. But (as a non-union teacher, not that it should matter) I did want to introduce this research into the discussion.

m hoffmn

This article is just plain DUMB and adds nothing to the resolution of a very difficult equation. It is just the usual teacher bashing. I attended public schools. I was poor. I attended college and advanced to receive a professional degree. None of my teachers were Rhodes scholars, but the Board of Education and politicians left them alone to teach. They provided the students every opportunity to learn. In retrospect, they were underpaid, and as I grew older I realized that their pensions were meager. Fortunately, teachers now are paid more appropriately in recognition of their critical position in society. This raises an interesting issue: Does bashing teachers actually destroy their motivation? Do any of these "experts" such as Arne Duncan have any real experience, education or training for their positions? I have great respect for those who enter the teaching profession. Most are initially well motivated. If you want to conduct a real world experiment to determine whether the so called "best" teachers can dramatically change the outcomes for marginal students, we should identify such supposedly superior teachers and place them in the schools with the lowest achieving students. For example, take teachers with six figure salaries from the wealth northwest suburbs of Chicago and place them in the intercity schools of Chicago with the lowest achieving students. Then we would actually have results. Until someone does so, without culling the best students from public schools and having them attend charter or private schools, we will never know. And, what about the special education students? Where do they go? Do we have special charter schools for them too? A huge part of public education budgets go toward serving these students. How many attend private schools? How many are in charter schools? Leave these issues to those who have studied them. For economics professors in their Ivy League towers to chime in accomplishes nothing. Richard Posner is right to admit that he is "unclear" with regard to these matters. Neither article adds anything to a very difficult subject. As Mr. Posner notes, good students from good social backgrounds achieve higher scores. This much is clear. As for other students, there is not nor has there been during my 62 years of life any clear answer.

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teachers then get a bonus that depends on the percentile ranking of their students at year-end compared with the performance of the comparable students.
I agree with this definetly

Sarah Kevin

Hi,
Since I am working as Assistant Professor, I believe teachers should get bonus or get an applause at least.
To motivate them for adopting better teaching techniques, the administration should arrange seminars, conferences or workshops, even some specialized courses should be arranged.
Thanks
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The unions have claimed that this approach to merit would give higher pay not to teachers who do the best teaching, but to teachers. I attended public schools. I was poor. I attended college and advanced to receive a professional degree. None of my teachers were Rhodes scholars, but the Board of Education and politicians left them alone to teach. They provided the students every opportunity to learn. In retrospect, they were underpaid, and as I grew older I realized that their pensions were meager. Fortunately, teachers now are paid more appropriately in recognition of their critical position in society. This raises an interesting issue: Does bashing teachers actually destroy their motivation? Do any of these "experts" such as Arne Duncan have any real experience, education or training for their positions? I have great respect for those who enter the teaching profession. Most are initially well motivated.

Wack Mack

Much of the debate on merit pay has been focused on designing test scores and basing pay of of those scores. Has anybody ever considered giving school boards more incentive to motivate teachers and students?
I question whether the increase in test scores attributed to charter schools and voucher programs is worth the money, time, and parental confusion that will be needed to implement and maintain such a program.

Charles St

If I may make a practical suggestion: Devil take the hindmost. Let say 3% per year be subject to firing, criteria to be negotiated between the union and the employer. Surely, a union can't object to its worst 3% being liable to firing, or to put it the other way, can't justify forcing the employer to retain the worst 3% of their employees.

Since nobody will want to be in the lowest 3%, this will create incentive to a certain minimum performance, an incentive that will increase with time, as the very worst are progressively culled.

(I already posted this at over at Marginal Revolution.)

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MRWED

I should say the post is not debatable and truly great! Teachers should be given real attention and one way to give this is through incentives/bonuses. It will help them to strive more and upgrade learning to be more productive and competent.

Merchant

I think the bonus depends on the student's teacher, is a good proposal, contrary to outstanding students also should get the school's bonus

Merchant

I think the bonus depends on the student's teacher, is a good proposal, contrary to outstanding students also should get the school's bonus

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I guess but to teachers. I attended public schools. I was poor. I attended college and advanced to receive a professional degree. None of my teachers were Rhodes scholars, but the Board of Education and politicians left them alone to teach. They provided the students every opportunity to learn. In retrospect, they were underpaid, and as I grew older I realized that their pensions were meager. Fortunately, teachers now are paid more appropriately in recognition of their critical position in society. This raises an interesting issue: Does bashing teachers actually destroy their motivation?

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