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10/17/2010

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Wonda Dewey

This is an ongoing battle. Birth Right vs Immigration is a thing that will never go away. Those born here think they deserve more. But do they?

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citizen 1

Once again, a blog which adds nothing to a legitimate debate. What is the significance of the terms "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof"? If those born in the U.S. are subject to our lawful jurisdiction, as a corollary they should also possess the rights of citizenship. There is no real evidence that immigrants, illegal or otherwise, have caused any negative consequences to our economy. Instead, study after study confirms that most of such immigrants are employed in low wage occupations which significantly benefit our economy. Suggesting that only those wealthy enough to "buy their way in" or that we should encourage for our own selfish interests to encourage the trained and educated professionals of other nations to immigrate to this country defies our history. America was built on the backs of poor and disenfranchised immigrants. The suthors of these blogs contribute nothing by their arrogance and ignorance of the issues.

Jeff C

Wonda,
The deserving parties are the parents and grandparents who have contributed to the existing wealth of the United States. They deserve to see that wealth passed down to their children, not to the children of those who enter the country illegally. And even if the term "deserving" is too subjective or value-loaded to allow for consensus, the incentives created by birthright citizenship provide alternative grounds to oppose it -- birthright citizenship can undermine the extent to which individual citizens accept our system for pooling and reallocating valuable resources. A citizenry that sees its tax contributions flow to free-riders is discouraged from contribution, which manifests in increased opposition to and subversion of redistributive programs.

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I disagree with this approach to drafting requests for admissions. It is much easier to use the admitted requests at trial when the format is as you said.good post generally.

Jake

Judge Posner writes: "But closing the loophole that encourages foreigners to come to the United States solely to make their future children U.S. citizens would not address the larger question of birthright citizenship. For undoubtedly most children born in the United States to illegal immigrants are not born to persons whose motive for immigrating was based in whole or significant part on a desire to have U.S. citizen children."

Most lawyers and judges (certainly Posner himself) recognize that the adverb "undoubtedly" reflects an opinion expressed by an advocate who is unable to marshal specific evidence to support his position, and consequently seeks to employ rhetoric as a substitute means of persuading the audience.


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Profmsf

While the authors of the 14th Amendment may have been primarily concerned with legitimizing the legal status of recently freed slaves, they may also have considered it economically desirable to promote population growth by making it easy for people to become citizens. Arguing that the authors of this amendment never intended it to encourage people to come here just to give birth to citizens assumes either that they did not wish to encourage it or that they did not consider it technologically feasible in large numbers. The latter is certainly possible since the non-existence of air travel and the high cost of ocean transport limited access of that type. The former is more likely, in my view, as these people were in the process of building a great economic power that needed chep labor. As our demand for labor has changed, so too has our commitment to the 14th amendment.

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I know this is really boring and you are skipping to the next comment, but I just wanted to throw you a big thanks - you cleared up some things for me!

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I am very pleased with the thought and don’t feel like adding anything in it. It a perfect answer.

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I guess those born here deserve more coz its their birthplace their mother land so for they are 1st and then the migrants.

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I guess those born here deserve more coz its their birthplace their mother land so for they are 1st and then the migrants.

Alan Levine

Why are well assimilated immigrants better than their not being here at all? If they’re all going to become productive citizens (e.g. engineers, doctors, lawyers, businesspeople, teachers, artists, etc.) then I see Judge Posner’s point. But that presumes a good educational base that not only provides a solid academic foundation, but aids the assimilation through transmitting culture and values. Do we actually have that? Are we putting the necessary resources into public education to accomplish this goal?

And what’s wrong with reuniting families? Or giving preference to political refugees. Isn’t that the way a moral nation should conduct its immigration policy? At least in part?

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I know this is really boring and you are skipping to the next comment, but I just wanted to throw you a big thanks - you cleared up some things for me!

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Aussie Sarah

If you dont want people to come to USA just to give birth for the sake of citizenship I am sure the government can work something out. But the question is how you can distinct between people who are here to give birth or who are here for real reason? Its almost like marrying for a green card dilemma.

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This was the most arguments that this place has to resolve since many illegal immigrants will just come and make it an excuse.

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