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10/03/2010

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Donscgi


Good enumeration and evaluation of important factors in consideration of "merit-based pay" for teachers.

blake

Well, perhaps with a combination of vouchers and competition schools could specialize in dealing with kids who are disadvantaged. Assuming their parents have the insight to select the right school for them, but still offering the choice to opt out of a clearly broken system seems much more likely to help than hurt.

citizen1

Thank you for responsibly acknowledging you are "unclear" with regard to these issues. That is the only fact of any note in your article. Obviously, neither you nor Mr. Becker are experts. Nor is Arnie Duncan, unfortunately. Is it a "broken system" as so many assert? The public schools seem to be on a much sounder footing than many other aspects of our society, including every branch of the Illinois and federal governments. Criminal wars, corruption, endless budget deficits, fiat money, forced support for the criminal religious enclave of Israel, how do these politicians believe they have any credibility on any subject? I am the proud product of the public schools. I would defend every one of my elementary and high school teachers. It was only after graduating from high school and attending college and professional schools that I came into contact with REAL incompetence and unmotivated teachers. Fortunately, they did not affect my achievement since I was otherwise well motivated and prepared. MAYBE ELEMENTARY AND SECONDARY SCHOOL TEACHERS WOULD LIKE TO COMMENT ON THE FEDERAL COURTS, IVY LEAGUE SCHOOLS, ECONOMICS AND THE MORAL AND ECONOMIC BANKRUPTCY OF AMERICAN GOVERNMENT IN THE TWENTY FIRST CENTURY. THEY WOULD BE AT LEAST AS WELL QUALIFIED, AND IN SOME CASES, MORE QUALIFIED.

Lina Tani

great value section on the merit based pay for teachers

Fred Harwood

Perhaps too briefly: Huckleberry Finn, Chapter V, Pap Hisself, and the judge.
Humanity may be simple.

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Ken Arromdee

Another problem is that how much a student improves depends on the student's room for improvement. Imagine a teacher given a class of student s who score 100% A+ on everything. That teacher couldn't improve the students at all. Moreover, you'd get a situation where if the teacher that the students had last year improved them too much, the teacher they have this year will find it unreasonably difficult to make further improvements.

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The public schools seem to be on a much sounder footing than many other aspects of our society, including every branch of the Illinois and federal governments. Criminal wars, corruption, endless budget deficits, fiat money, forced support for the criminal religious enclave of Israel, how do these politicians believe they have any credibility on any subject? I am the proud product of the public schools. I would defend every one of my elementary and high school teachers.

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you'd get a situation where if the teacher that the students had last year improved them too much, the teacher they have this year will find it unreasonably difficult to make further improvements!
yes,maybe right!

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Another problem is that how much a student improves depends on the student's room for improvement. Imagine a teacher given a class of student s who score 100% A+ on everything.

I.R. Disappoint

Compare the error rates for VAM reported by LA Times against those by publishing scholars. Then compare the reported methodologies.

The LA Times claims to be more accurate than anyone else, yet provides less information about the statistical innovations which allow them to make such a claim. In fact, the LA Times claims suspiciously low error rates (compared to the state of the art) and has not disclosed their method sufficient to allow verification of their results.

Yet here is Professor Posner making references to that dubious study twice, without a single link to reputable scholarly works. How odd.

Ed Hardy

Yet here is Professor Posner making references to that dubious study twice, without a single link to reputable scholarly works. How odd.

Jack

"Economists" and others try to make a case for merit pay, "value added" pay or even "vouchers" in an attempt to wring more, difficult to measure performance from the existing teaching staff.

Left out of the discussion is the fact that the US is short some 50,000 teachers. Now why are we short of teachers? Should be an easy question for the supply and demand set; that despite the personal rewards of teaching wages are generally too low to create strong competition for the "best and brightest" college graduates............ Ha! many of whom go on to Wall Street where they prey on us in order to become youthful millionaires and generate a family fortune.

Many education "worriers", Posner included are strongly opposed to the unions and collective bargaining, apparently as they'd rather beat down salaries and working conditions yet further despite US teacher salaries lagging behind those of many other nations.

While some will point out high salaries alone do not assure us of quality and wisdom (Wall Street comes quickly to mind) surely all "supply and demand" folk will have to agree that were teacher pay high enough to create competition for the jobs and to, if not actually provide a living std similar to that of other professionals, at least one that is a few notches above the poverty line.

It doesn't take much imagination or much economic training to understand that in a nation short of teachers the tendency to keep what staff they have and hire less than the best will be strong.

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Christopher Graves

Crucial factors in educational performance are the intelligence and motivation of students along with the family structure they live in. No reform of the educational system can overcome these factors if they are poor. Attempts to equalize educational opportunities has only served to drag down the development of the most gifted students coming from the best families. Consider the research on this issue by Robert Weissberg in his *Bad Students, Not Bad Schools,* Transaction Publishers, 2010.

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