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05/13/2012

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Hined

Although there may be some small genetic copmnneot there is no scientific evidence suggesting a gay gene . people simply aren't born gay, instead homosexuality develops in response to life events and environment. Yes there are many happy homosexuals out there but for some their sexuality can develop out of negativities such as an absent father figure or abuse from same-sex peers during childhood. Sexuality is certainly not fixed and with substansial effort some gays can change.

Livenus

Duhhh, joke people! But my suerois point is that it really should not matter whether one is gay or straight or why. It really should be utterly irrelevant when consenting adults love each other or want to have sex with each other. Sadly it is not. That is why there is all the fuss .

Tanwir

B.I don’t think it’s a false premise to beilvee God created homosexuals in this manner.If someone is inherently nurturing, why do we attribute that to God? If someone inherently loves, why is that attributed to God? And then if someone is something that we don’t agree with, well, God didn’t create them that way. It’s perverted, fallen humanity. They can change. The logic doesn’t quite flow.God does love us just as we are. And it’s HE that works in us to change us as he sees fit. Not according to some kind of law, but according to his will.Your second ‘false premise’ is problematic. If homosexuals are encouraged to change, then we should equally encourage heterosexuals to change. After all, how we are born, in total depravity to sin, is bad.This argument doesn’t add up to me. Not in the least.Because your experience has been that people can change who they are, doesn’t mean that’s empirical certainty. It means, that’s been your experience and in no way is compelling evidence to the contrary.I am friends with many, many queers and they’ve gone through, probably, similar ‘healings’ of their ‘desires, as you put it. Not one of them lasted. But when they embraced you they are, both spiritual and personal healing came. While I appreciate your pedigree, it doesn’t effect my experience and how I’ve seen God move and work in my friends lives.As to Ray’s family: It’s tragic, I’m absolutely sure. Having not experienced this exact situation in my life and marriage, I can’t imagine what they’ve all been through. But him maintaining this lie would have been much more damning to both he and his family had he not acknowledged this truth. The family has choices on how they handle this confession.I suppose it’s much easier to speak about the ideas of grace, mercy, compassion, forgiveness and reconciliation. Employing those qualities is something entirely different.I reverently maintain my position.

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Ahmed

in four chapters that it wasn't our role to judge othres. the word for judge in the greek means to divinely judge/point the finger/blame/or say youre doing it wrong'. what he was saying was that when we decide to help' someone along we are stepping in and calling ourselves god. i would also add when we define sin and point the fingers, not only are we the first to cast stones, we are the first to condemn/judge of which we are encouraged not to do. i also think its dangerous to apply scripture to every situation, like the old example of judas hung himself, go and do likewise'. scripture was speaking into a time, in a language with a culture. if anything we all are writing scripture now with our lives. a good book to read on all this is by author karen armstrong in a book called the bible:biography'. that when they (humans) were compiling their oral story, they weren't intending othres to go and make doctrine' out of it. there is laces of their own theology throughout, sure, but its their theology. we can glean from it, but it would be dangerous to assume it should be ours. that is literary colonization. also the ancients jews thought it was their responsibility to wrestle with scripture. they had this myth story about a guy named jacob who wrestled with an angel as a metaphor for questioning and grappling with scripture, none of scripture was off-limits. they also believed each scripture had up to 70 different interpretations. 70!the idea behind the timothy letter again is a letter first and foremost dealing with issues and instructing a young new church planter. in a context. and god-breathed means alive. and god-breathed is what we are. we are god-breathed, scripture is god-breathed, therefore we are scripture. our lives are scripture. and if something is alive it means it grows, changes, matures and evolves, this is the same for scripture.also feel free to follow the link to my website and see if your words stand true (if i am a *heretic*).

Zoe

May25Jim B. To start, the belief that God ceertas homosexuality is a false premise. God did not create one to be homosexual. Granted, there are alot of psychological dynamics that go into the homosexual desires, but God isn't the originator of them. Besides, if we start with God created me this way, then we have to change nothing about our behavior. God created me with a sin nature; therefore, I don't have to stop lying, cheating, stealing, or commiting adultry; I was born that way. God loves me just as I am, so I am free to accept myself with my sin nature acting sinfully. The second false premise is that homosexuals can't change. This is also false; there has been alot written in the past decade regarding those who struggle with homosexuality being able to change that orientation, and this is coming from the field of psychology and not just pastors. I've personally worked with several men through the years that have found both spiritual and personal healing from their homosexual desires. So, to state that this is who I am and I can't change is completely inaccurate. In case anyone wants to debate my stated work with homosexuals, I hold a doctoral level degree in Marriage and Family Therapy , as well as a Master's of Divinity in Pastoral Psychology and Counseling. I am also in a full-time private practice, so I've seen the transformations that have happen. Besides, has anyone talked to Ray's wife and kids? I'm sure they're not so accepting of his new-found freedoms.

Marco

in four chapters that it wasne2€™t our role to judge ohters. Verses, please? Oh, wait. That's right i also think its dangerous to apply scripture to every situation, like the old example of e2€˜judas hung himself, go and do likewisee2€™. Hmmm that when they (humans) were compiling their oral story, they werene2€™t intending ohters to go and make e2€˜doctrinee2€™ out of it. So when Paul wrote Timothy and said that all scripture was profitable for doctrine, I guess he didn't really mean, ALL, then? they had this myth story about a guy named jacob who wrestled with an angel as a metaphor for questioning and grappling with scripture, none of scripture was off-limits. Myth story? Do you believe this event actually happened as described in the Bible? also feel free to follow the link to my website and see if your words stand true (if i am a *heretic*). I didn't see a statement of faith. Do you happen to have a concise area where you outline your theological statements? For example, here are three yes or no questions that would sort things out for me:-Do you believe that a person who has never heard of Jesus Christ can go to Heaven of their own merit?-Do you believe in the Trinity, including the deity of Christ?-Do you believe in the literal virgin birth, crucifixion, and resurrection of Jesus Christ? CS

Yudha

May28Cj Just to shine a little light of calrity here, God does not only hate the sin, but because of the sin he also hates the sinner, this only proves his love to be genuine:Romans 12:9Let love be genuine. Abhor what is evil; hold fast to what is good.This abhorring or hating what is evil is not limited to only hating the evil acts, but also hating the evil person as shown here:Psalm 5:5The boastful shall not stand before your eyes;you hate all evildoersand herePsalm 11:5The Lord tests the righteous,but his soul hates the wicked and the one who loves violence.6 Let him rain coals on the wicked;fire and sulfur and a scorching wind shall be the portion of their cup.7 For the Lord is righteous;he loves righteous deeds;the upright shall behold his face.This just shows the magnitude of the affect that our sin has on our relationship with God. And it just magnifies his grace because even through this hate he has for those that are dead in their sins, he still finds away to love them and send his Son to die so that they can be conformed to his image and not die in their sins. Pure grace!

Freda

It seems youre defining clriaty in an objective sense, but as you might agree, clriaty to you and clriaty to me can be two completely different things. Using scripture as a point of clriaty isn't clriaty to me. Its misusing scripture. I would also ask if you are aware of your historical contigency? that there were authors who composed their oral stories. authors who lived and breathed in a culture with a language not our own. this is good to keep in mind when approaching scripture. that it wasn't a book meant to forcefully direct nations or peoples. sure, it has that capacity. but so does a book by john grisham. i am saying that god can speak through anything not just a collection of 66 books of oral stories. to bind ourselves to the bible as being the only book that god can speak through is to follow a very small god. not to mention to one that has to be bound to something. love is the ultimate reality, not sin. by focusing on sin as a big deal we denigrate the traditional orthodox view of jesus dying on the cross. it also focuses on a problem that was already taken care, and if we focus on a problem that has already been taken care we are actually saying it hasn't been taken care of, if you agree to the orthodox view of the cross.

Sandeep

—————Well, Rick, if I understand you right, man can boecme saved but continue to be a murderer————must be if he can continue to rape and be a drunk. All I can say is————-You have changed the grace of our God into a license for immorality [Jude 4]./end quoteRick hasn’t change grace in any manner, fishon. Grace is something that’s provisioned for without exception to every person, everywhere. We didn't earn it. We can’t lose it.In the same manner, salvation isn’t something earned or lost. It simply is.Jesus said it’s finished. Not it’s finished, except for these couple last things you need to do, personally.”Now, if you want to live by the letters of the law, that’s fair and fine for you. But please don’t put constraints on the depth of the love, the grace, and the mercy of God.And as we read in the story, Jesus didn’t condemn the woman in adultery. He forgave her without her asking, in the midst of what she was doing. That’s where transformation happens. When you can extend that kind love, without judgment and condemnation, or rules and regulations, things begin changing in people.What do you believe grace to be, fishon?

NcuEezs

May31CS george: does it make you feel beettr now that you have a label? does it make you feel like you can e2€˜boxe2€™ me in/control me and the conversation? i am asking sincerely. because it does seem like you do? No, it makes me feel sad, honestly. I hate it when people think that they have the truth, but the truth is not within them. For example also, i guess youe2€™re saying that e2€˜one can lose their salvatione2€™ (which means healing; not saying a prayer to save onee2€™s soul i am not changing anything, just going back to definitions Sigh. This is why I hate it so much, because for all your trying to understand what salvation is, you miss the mark entirely.And, no, people cannot lose their salvation. Instead, more of those who claim to be saved have never been, which makes it even worse. I fear this is the case with you.Please, before God calls your life debt due, repent of your sins and go to Christ. CS

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